Introducing Coach Sean Henning: Goals, Discipline, and Passion

In this month's episode of the Next Level Running Podcast, I sit down with new RunDoyen Coach Sean Henning. Coach Sean is a veteran NCAA coach with 15+ years leading collegiate programs. We hear about Coach Sean's background, coaching philosophy and chat all things setting goals, establishing discipline, and the role that passion plays in your pursuits! 

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https://www.rundoyen.com/running-coaches/sean-henning/

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https://www.rundoyen.com/running-coaches/jacob-phillips/

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Transcript

Jacob Phillips 0:18

This is the Next Level Running Podcast brought to you by the expert coaches at Run Doya, helping runners of all levels trust their goals on race day by matching with the perfect coach or a training plan. Hello, and welcome to this month's episode of the Next Level Running Podcast. I'm your host, Jacob Phillips, and this month we've got a great conversation with new Run Doyan coach Sean Henning. Coach Sean is a veteran coach at the NCAA level. He's coached for 15 plus years at the NCAA level. Not to mention he had a few years at the high school level before that. Coach Sean comes to Run Doyne from Biola, where he still coaches. He's the head coach of cross country and track and field out there. For a team that is nationally competitive year in and year out, this was a fun conversation for me. I'm good friends with Sean. We were able to connect during the COVID pandemic. And we kind of joined this coaches cohort that would meet over Zoom weekly, monthly. And you know, I I can't remember if it was weekly or monthly, but we met quite often during the pandemic, and you know, we would talk through coaching, we would talk through training, uh, we'd talk through what we were going through as coaches during the pandemic, what our teams were going through. And so uh it was a fun group to join, and Sean was kind of the ringleader of that group. But uh so it's been fun to watch him have some success as a coach over these past few years of as I've gotten to know him better, you know, his teams at Viola at Biola are very good. Uh Coach Sean has a really personal coaching style, and we talk about that and much more in this conversation. I I really think you could call this a conversation on coaching. Uh but if you're not a coach, if you're a runner, a recreational runner, or a serious runner out there, we touch on goal setting, we touch on discipline, we touch on passion, we touch on figuring out your why in training and racing. So this was a very good conversation as I got a chance to introduce Coach Sean to the Run Doyan family here and the next level running family. But before we get started, as usual, I want to jump into the show notes below. We will have the contact for Sean and for myself. We've got the website for RunDoyan.com. Look, if you're looking for a coach to help you take your running to the next level, look no further than rundoyan.com. We've got a roster full of world-class expert run coaches who want to help you crush your goals. We've also got the Doyan Dashers program. Look, if you're not quite ready for that full-time coach yet, check out the Doyen Dashers for just$39 a month. You get a custom training plan written for you by one of our world-class expert run coaches, but you don't have the rigid accountability that you'd have with a coach. There's flexibility. You go at your own pace. Look, I used it this last spring and it was great for me. I didn't have to really report to anyone. I just basically could follow the plan as I felt the need to. So look, check that out if you're not ready for a full-time coach yet. I'll also have the links below to our Run Doyan Instagram account as well as our Facebook community group at the Next Level Running Community Group. Check those out. Look, if you're looking to find an online community of runners looking for motivation, inspiration, encouragement, tips, advice, you name it. Those are two great places to start. So check those out and click the like and the follow button. But hey, look, let's jump into this conversation with Coach Sean Henning here on the Next Level Running podcast. This was a fun one, and I hope you enjoyed it too. Hey man, how are you? You can hear me?

SPEAKER_01 3:46

I can. You hear me?

Jacob Phillips 3:47

Yeah, loud and clear, man. So uh Yeah, so thanks for joining the podcast tonight, man. And uh yeah, welcome to Run Doyne. So like this is uh so you're you're you're just uh starting with Run Doyne, and so wanted to basically introduce you to our clients and uh yeah, talk about a little bit about your background, all that kind of good stuff. So introduce yourself, man.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Yeah, for sure. Well, um yeah, it's good to be on. Um it'd be fun to talk to you about this. I feel like we've been friends for a few years now, but I don't think we've ever kind of died you know dived into I guess, you know, my coaching and how I've ended up where I'm at. So yeah, it'd be good to share a little bit of that. But um, yeah, I'm excited to get started with Run Doyin and start coaching and um helping people get to where uh where they want to get to. And um yeah, so a little bit about me. Um just I'll give you the the the condensed version. But um I've been coaching uh for at the college level for about 15 years. I think it's about that. Um before that I was I coached at the high school level for a couple of years, but um going back even further, you know, I was um growing up, I was a I was a ball sport guy and uh was not a runner, um, but kind of fell into my lap when my mom wouldn't let me play football. So I uh had to do something in the fall in California. So it was uh it was cross-country, I guess. So yeah. Um, but I definitely hated it for two years, did not like it, but did it anyways. And um, I think later into my high school career by my junior year, I realized I was you know pretty decent at it and um that I maybe would do this in college. And so that that the I actually started liking it, you know. Yeah, um, but yeah, so that kind of you know, that enjoyment of the sport grew and um and then uh yeah, so it grew and grew in coach in in college. And I think I I hate to say this, but I feel like I learned a lot of what not to do as a coach. Um, I really hate saying that. That sounds I've had I've had some great people I've been able to be coached by, but a lot of things I did not want to do as a coach, um, which helped form my coaching philosophy. And um yeah, and so I think um just learning. I mean, I knew nothing as a high schooler. I didn't know I didn't know why you needed to run more than three miles. If you if you race three miles, why do you need to run more than that? I didn't understand.

Jacob Phillips 6:07

Why why warm up? You just get tired warming up, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:10

I can remember running with a buddy of mine in height, like our senior year, and we're talking about how many miles we ran a week, and and uh and he'd tell me what he did, and and uh and he said he, you know, he counted all his warm-up and cool down. Why do you count the warm up and cooldown? That wasn't hard. Yeah, um, I just didn't understand, you know. So um, anyway, so I grew a ton, you know, in college and really didn't plan on coaching. That I didn't even think about coaching, and it kind of fell into my lap, honestly. It uh post-collegially I had an opportunity. Someone told me about this opportunity, and um, so I I won't get into that, but I ended up, yeah, I ended up interviewing for a coaching job and um just trying to you know pay the bills and um and and hope hope hoping to parlay that into a teaching job and um ended up uh coaching in high school. And um I think I started um I think I started realizing that coaching was something I really wanted to pursue uh when uh as I was still trying to run post-collegially and you know pursue you know fast times on the roads and all that. Once I started thinking, I think it was my second year coaching in high school, I was I'd be running and I'd be thinking about my team and I'd be thinking about them and I'd be thinking about how I could get them faster, you know. And I wasn't thinking about myself anymore, you know, I wasn't thinking about what I could do. Um, and so I think that was kind of when I realized, you know what, this might be something, you know, that's been placed in in my life for a purpose. And um, and so yeah, so then I um, you know, I applied for uh college, my first college job uh was at uh California Baptist University. I applied there and got the job, and um I was there for about five and a half years and coached NAI and then NCAA Division II as a school transitioned, and then um 2015 came over to Biola University, which was just a great opportunity for me. Um being a private Christian school, it kind of fit in well to my coaching philosophy. And um, anyways, it was uh also gonna transition to division two from NAI. So um, so yeah, I got to go through that and um take over the programs here. And so I just finished year nine, um, which is kind of crazy to think it's been so long, but um uh but yeah, so that's that's been my journey. So I guess I've been coaching, technically coaching since 2008. Um and um and yeah, so it's it's been it's been a joy and um definitely a blessing.

Jacob Phillips 8:37

So no doubt. And so like uh I I want to go back to your high school and college and post-college, your own personal running days. And so, like, were you more mid-distance, long distance? Like, what was your kind of your specialty?

SPEAKER_01 8:49

So it started, uh it started middle distance, and um I redshirted my whole freshman year um and uh trained as a middle distance runner, and then um my sophomore year, uh kind of a long story, as I was actually at Fresno State, uh is where I started my collegiate career at. And they'd actually made some changes in the program, they'd cut cross country and indoor track and all these things, and so they were very limited in the roster size. And I was I was just a walk-on guy, and so um they they kept me on the team, and it but as a steepler, oh wow, you are going to steeple, that is what you're going to do. Um, and so I I kind of didn't have much of a choice. That was really what I had to do, and um, and then I I mean I had several injuries that I had three stress fractures that year, um, so it was kind of a disaster that you know. Um, that was a start and finish of my steeple chase career. One race, one uh that was the third stress fracture of the year, and that was the end of the season, and then um never attempted it again. And then when I transferred, I transferred to um Azusa Pacific University and and um really started focusing more on the longer stuff. Um, and at the time, uh Azusa was uh an NAI school like Biola, and and so I don't know if they have it anymore, honestly, but they used to have a marathon they would they would run at uh NAI Nationals, and so um I got to pursue that for a couple of years as well as cross country, obviously. Love cross country and um you know love the team aspect of that and um you know did some cool things there, got to go to nationals and you know, be on some pretty good teams there, and then on during track season, I got to pursue more 5k, 10k, but then also training for the marathon. And I think the unique thing for me was I had a coach that um while he gave me training, he was also pretty flexible. So um he didn't know a lot about marathon training at the time. He was a pretty young coach, and so um, so we were able to, you know, dialogue a little bit and I could suggest things and he'd be open to it. And so um, I think I think I I had a lot of um uh what's the word? Um, a lot of flexibility to to do some things that I felt would work well for me. Um and I really took to that longer distance and the um I think the grind of it, you know, um like the accomplishment of going out and doing a you know a workout, uh in the the in uh like more of a distance focused workout and the whole mileage equaled like 14 miles. And it's like, dude, I did a lot of I did a lot of work today, you know. Um just that feeling of like putting in really good work, um, you know, or doing you know, 24 quarters on the track and you know, just like like long, long things that just are a grind, you know, they're not necessarily crazy fast, but there's just a lot of a lot of work and a lot of time. And so um going on two hour long, you know, putting in 20 milers and um, you know, uh yeah, just just uh really hammering some really long runs and like there's I don't I don't know if there's a better feeling than finishing 20 to 22 miles and just you know absolutely crushing it at the end and be you know just on this high that you you're so fit, you know. And so I think I kind of enjoyed that feeling, and so that's what I gravitated more towards, and um and uh yeah, so I I I don't think I I think I probably could have done fine as a middle distance runner, but I I think I would have been limited and I think I my mindset was more more geared towards doing longer things.

Jacob Phillips 12:18

Well, I I think like one, that's that's pretty unique to as a college athlete to be focusing on the marathon, right? So you've got this, you've got a pretty unique background there. And I think too, as like as like a post-collegiate, you know, uh there's a limited opportunity for middle distance, right? But the the roads with the 5k, the 10k, the half marathon, the full marathon, there's there's so many, so many more opportunities, it seems like, right? And so uh it's a it's a it's a much harder road, I think, uh, to pursue it post-collegiately um or recreationally if you're a middle distance runner, right? So um that's super super cool. I mean, like to be able to run the marathon in college is a pretty pretty big deal, you know. So I would have uh that would have blown my mind in college, right? Like, like we didn't have that, we were division two, and and it would have blown my mind. But so as you've kind of gone through, you know, like I think uh I think when we talk about like you started coaching in high school and really you kind of started dabbling with coaching with the dialogue back and forth with your marathon uh you know experiment in college, but you know, high school, then then college, you've obviously coached some post-collegiate or some recreational runners and such. And so I guess the question is is do you consider yourself and maybe it's both, right? But like is your is your coaching, is it more artists, is it more science, you know, art science, you know, that kind of that kind of you know, the the old debate, right? Like which one do you feel like you fall on?

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Oh man. Um I uh so I don't know if I could say I I am necessarily one over the other. I I think um I think what what makes a a good coach a good coach is is the art side of it because I feel like the science um for the most part is tried and true. And um, you know, I I was thinking about this earlier today, knowing that we were gonna talk. And you know, if you look back, like probably from I don't know, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna ballpark it, but maybe the the 60s and 70s where like really like the the the the testing and the physiology of the sport, they really started figuring stuff up, you know, stuff out more around that period of time. And um and I I feel like all the physiology that we've learned, it doesn't really changed a lot, you know, from then till now. It's it's fairly, it's you know, you you learn you you there's minor discoveries here and there, right? But for the most part, it's pretty much tried and true. What what they were doing back in the 70s is you know similar physiologically, that it's it's the same, you know. I I think um the the art of coaching is just packaging it, right? How do you package it to your athlete? How do you read the room and understand your athlete and how you can sell it to them? I mean, in some ways you're a salesman too, right? You're trying to sell them on why this is going to work for them. Um, but but but also just packaging it, you know, to where they can they can digest what you have given them and they and it makes sense and they can they can do it. And so um I I guess I would I guess maybe then I would say it's more of an art, I suppose, for me, because I think the physiology, I mean, there's so many good coaches, right? And um, and I think um the the difference for me is like I want to I want to be a coach that uh you know I can I can package it in a way that my athletes receive it, receive it well, they they trust it, they buy into it, um, they they enjoy it. Um and they can see by the way I have explained it to them how it will get them from point A to point B, right? Um you understand that we go through this as college coaches all the time, right? We we're trying to sell our athletes on why this will work for them, right? So I think the art is that's what makes coaches, I think that that puts you over the top as a coach is being able to that the art side of it and and uh uh packaging it well for your your your athletes.

Jacob Phillips 15:55

No doubt. I 100% agree. You know, I think like um one, it's like coaching is about communication, right? And so like and that's the art side of it, right? Because like the science is like the science is what the science is, right? And like, you know, whether you're the the the college kid trying to be an all-American or you're uh the recreational runner trying to qualify for Boston, like they they honestly don't care. They just want to know, is what I'm doing gonna get me to my goal, right? And and I think like if you're shaky with your communication skills, if you can't communicate how you want things done, you know, then then they're gonna be kind of uh doubting that too. And and and you talked about this, and I know we've kind of you know chit-chat about this a little bit, but like, you know, the the the science, yeah, the science hasn't changed that much, right? Like the principles haven't changed that much. You know, we're talking the new fad is double threshold, right? But like really, like all these things just keep getting recycled, you know. Like I was the glory days of running for me were were the early 2000s. And and man, I I would get in from practice and I would immediately go to let's run.com and just get on those message boards. And that was back when you'd find training stuff and coaches would come, you know, would would post and it wasn't as toxic back then as it is today. But there was a guy, Marius Bacon, Marius Bacon, I can't remember, I don't know how to pronounce his name, but he was a Norwegian that ran 1304 before, like like literally one of the only non-Africans running that fast. And and he was doing this, you know, and and now it's like, oh, it's the new thing. It's not new. It was happening back in the early 2000s and and I and like maybe you know, 10, 15 years ago, uh, Canova, Brad Hudson, they're talking about hill sprints, hill sprints, these short eight to 10 second hill sprints, you gotta, you know, it's always these new things that kind of come, and then it's like, well, they cycle through and then they come back again and they cycle through. But like none of that matters if you can't convince your athlete, if you can't, if your athlete can't trust you, right? And that comes from communication, that comes from the way you package it, like you're talking. And so, anyways, so very cool there. So, a question for you. So, if you had to break down like your philosophy, uh your coaching philosophy, like what does that look like to you? Like, what what would you nutshell?

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Yeah, um well, I think you know, we talked a little bit about it. I think um the the the uh the physiology of the sport, you know, the um the idea behind endurance training. I don't I don't think it's um, you know, I mean everything everything is being recycled, like you said. It's it's every every coach is stealing it from somebody else, you know. I mean, there are very few like you know groundbreaking things that have been figured out, you know. Um I I think um I think the key is that not everybody responds the same way, right? And so again, understanding um your athletes so you can create a good program that will work for them. Um, I mean, you and I have, you know, we have you know, we have middle distance athletes, we have distance athletes. I've got some middle distance athletes that train like distance runners and that's how they run fast in the 800. Yeah, and then I have some middle distance athletes that need to train like middle distance athletes, and that's how they run fast. Well, how does that make any sense, right? I don't know, but it does, right? And so um just just understanding the athlete and what uh works for them. Um so I think that's really that's really important to me as a coach. I think also just understanding an athlete's why, you know, like what is their purpose, what is their intent behind what they're doing. Um, and that that involves some vulnerability, that involves some trust, right? Um, sometimes there are like some deep things that people, you know, some reasons why they want to pursue something, right? Um I think it's so helpful to understand as a coach why um why they have these goals that they want to pursue. Um, and so for me, that's really important. I want to understand um the reasoning behind it, you know. So um, you know, if I'm coaching a post-collegiate uh athlete, are are they are they just trying to maintain a certain healthy lifestyle? Are they, you know, did they have this dream 20 years ago that they could hit a Boston qualifier and now they, you know, I don't know, maybe they maybe it was a a dream they had with someone in their family who passed away and now they really want to fulfill it because it was a really important thing, you know, whatever it might be. I think just understanding why they want to do something, super helpful. No doubt. Um and then I think um again, just under understanding the individual, and so um you need to understand the different life stressors that someone is is is dealing with, right? Um, and how you can work within the parameters that they have of their um of their their life to get them um to where they want to go. Not not everybody has unlimited time, right? I mean, me and I, you know, we um we don't. Yeah, yeah um, you know, we've got families and we've got jaws, and and so um, but understanding those things, you know, I um I'll give you a quick example. I had a a buddy of mine I coached years ago, and he um he was a really good collegiate runner, very good high school collegiate, very good. And then, you know, he became a PE teacher and um was very busy and started coaching, and but he wanted to get back into it, he wanted to run fast, and he wanted to run a really good half marathon. And um, the challenge was he had been kind of injury prone uh in his college career, and so he knew he couldn't do you know much more than about 60 miles a week. That was about all he could manage, and he had to have a day off, needed one day off. Yeah um and we knew he couldn't do any doubles, that just was out of the question with his schedule. Um, and he could really only handle about one workout a week, and then we could fit a workout into a long run, right? And that's about all he could do. And so I knew that about him, and so we had to make that work, right? Um, and and and he did great. I mean, we made we we managed to make it work, he ran a really good half marathon. I think he was really happy with it and ran some good fives and tens along the way, but um, but again, like having to work within the parameters of his life, yeah, you know, super important. Um, and so I think that's that's important as a coach. Otherwise, otherwise, you're setting the athlete up to fail, right? Yep. Um, and then you as a coach are frustrated too because you're thinking to yourself, why am I bothering? They can't do a hundred mile weeks and double days, and what the heck? Well, maybe they can't do that, you Yeah. Um and so, but on the flip side, you know, an an athlete needs to be willing to sacrifice some things, right?

Jacob Phillips 22:08

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Yeah. If somebody said to me, I want to run 230 in the marathon, but I can run two days a week, that's all I guess, I'd say, I mean, good luck. I'm probably not the coach for you, you know, but it's not gonna happen.

Jacob Phillips 22:17

Yeah. Well, yeah, well, and I think like too, when you're talking about this balancing the expectation of what you can fit in there, you know, you've got to look at, you know, when you coach in at the high school level, that's a very controlled environment, right? Like those kids show up to school and you've got this block of time, their P, you know, their P session, whatever. You go to college, we we have these blocks of time that are practices, right? And and it's pretty controlled. The the post-collegiate runner, the recreational runner, like like it's pretty chaotic, you know. I mean, like, but the thing I think is super cool with that though, is like in a couple of things you talked about when this understanding the why, the purpose, the intent, like I think we really get to see that um sometimes at such a deeper level than like with our college athletes, right? Sometimes the college athletes, it's well, I'm good at this, it maybe it pays for some school. Maybe mom and dad have been encouraged me to be an athlete. When you're 40, 45, 50, or even just out of college, and you've got to commute to work, and you've maybe you've got a family, and you it you have to make the decision at that point to fit it in, right? And and I, you know, it's it's the cool part for me is is you know, I've been lucky enough to coach some really good um, you know, non-college, non-high school athletes that have have just taken off and fallen in love with the sport, and maybe they were in love with it before they started and they've they've run really, really well, but it's crazy because it's 4 30 a.m. They're up, you know, because they know they've got to get back before they got to make lunches for the day, right? Or whatever, you know, and so I I I think that's cool. And I think that comes down to that communication, right? You said you said it takes some vulnerability uh to figure out why you want to achieve this, right? Like that goes back to communication, figuring out the right schedule, you know, you're you're you're the the athlete that you coach for the half marathon, like having to communicate. Well, when's the best time for that day off? When's the best time for that quality day? Like, like what is this gonna look like? And let's manage our expectations considering what you can do and such. And so what what do you feel like you know, when we're talking about this this balancing the stresses of life, the managing the expectation? Like, like what do you feel like for you? Because like you, I mean, like even you, you tried to still run. Like, what was the the biggest limiter to you? Like, what was the biggest like hindrance for you as a per like personally in running once you got out of college?

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Yeah, discipline without a doubt. Um, it's it's funny because like that now in my life, that's one of you know if you ask my team, you know, that's that's one of our team values, you know, is you must have discipline, right? Um, and it's funny, I really struggle with that, you know. And I I was the the guy that would push the runoff until the as late as humanly possible, right? So I could still get to work on time or whatever, you know. Um and I just was not good at that. And now it's become such a huge part of my life and my coaching philosophy. Um, I think you must have discipline if you're going to pursue these things, you know. Um, with anyone I, you know, I coach, I I want to understand their level of discipline. You know, is it high? Are we working on at a pretty pretty low level, you know? Um, and I think, you know, as college coaches, obviously we see it over the summer where we can't require anything from our athletes. It's strictly on their own. You know, we can give them suggestions, suggested training, and and then they can do it or they don't have to do it. And it's totally up to them, right? And um, but you see, you know, when when when the athletes come back and you talk to them and they, you know, you can you could tell the ones that were extremely disciplined and they they woke up at 5 a.m. You know, they had they were working a job at eight and they had to they had to do that. And those are the ones that I I think usually they end up having really good seasons or they they have they run really well, but I think they also really um develop a a a true appreciation for what they're doing because they were willing to sacrifice for it, right? Yeah, um, and so I think it means a lot to them because I think what what they gave up, they gave up some sleep to do that. They didn't, man, they didn't have to, because again, there's no repercussions, right? They didn't have to do it, yeah. Um, but they did it because it was important to them. And so I think you know, for me, discipline was really hard. Um, I did, you know, I did have passion um for what I was doing, but it it I don't think it made up my passion again, it transitioned into coaching other people, right? It went from my own running. So, like my first year after outside of uh uh college running and and and I was coaching, I really was passionate about my own running and it was fun. I got to do a lot. I actually had um had somebody, I had a buddy of mine coaching me, and and but I was able to kind of talk to him about different things I thought would work. And it was it was a great, it was a great thing. I had some sort of input into what I was doing, but but I was also, you know, he was looking at it from a different perspective, and um, and I was passionate about running fast, and um, so that was a lot of fun. Um, the passion was there, the discipline was very average at best, but then I think the next year, um, the discipline was average at best, and the passion for my own running was average at best, it was more about so that just did not equal running fast, you know, um for myself. And so it's not that I didn't like running, I just I did. I just I wanted to see other people pursue their goals, and um, I wanted to help them, you know, reach really high levels in the sport. So um, yeah, I I think it's really hard. Um, I don't know how it's been, you know, in your experience as a coach, but it's really hard to if someone does not have discipline and passion at some basic level, it's really hard to do much. It's really hard to get them to hit their goals. And those are two things that really drive you in a sport that's uh it can be really boring at times. Uh and it there are some lonely days, yeah. Not everybody has six training partners, right? And it can be dark outside and cold, and you know, you gotta have that discipline, you gotta have that passion. And if you're willing to do that, uh, then I think you know, you you never end up regretting it, you know, and you and you you definitely have a higher likelihood of achieving your goals.

Jacob Phillips 28:14

100%. I I think like for me, I I was actually having a conversation with one of my one of my Rondoian clients this week of just it just seems like it's been a constant struggle. And I said, Well, hey, look, like how do you feel when you finish, when you complete the day's work super accomplished, right? And it's like, well, that's what we're looking for every day, right? Like, and and you feel accomplished because it's hard, right? And like, and like, but you have goals, and that's why we're going after this. And so, but yeah, I I agree. I think, yeah, distance running, it's especially when you're looking at it, you know, you mentioned the the the college thing with like, you know, being alone in the summer and we're not really able to direct them too much and such, and like like you really have to find that discipline. But the same is true for that recreational runner. Like, you gotta get up and because you know, like the truth is it's like it's you and it's it's you and your goal alone, right? And like, and and really that's not true, right? Because like as a coach, you mentioned this uh briefly a while ago, like we're frustrated when it's not going well, and not frustrated at the athlete, but we like we want that to go well and we want to see that success and we're going along this journey with them. And I tell my athletes all the time, when you PR, that's a PR for me, right? Like, like I got that PR too, and and so we're excited for that. When you get that BQ, that's a BQ that I got too, right? And and so, but I think like it's it's hard, it's tough, it's frustrating at times. And so you have to you have to rely on discipline. Um, and that passion has got to keep you excited about it, right? And and and so I guess like, you know, talking about how important that is, like, what tips do you have for the runner out there that might be struggling right now with whether it's discipline or passion or both?

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Yeah, well, let me add one more thing to to that too, that uh you just reminded me of. Um I think the other thing that's really important to me as a coach is having perspective. Um I think I did one of those, one of those like uh tests, you know, that tells you your whatever your top five value, I don't even remember what they're called. I don't know. I did one of them and I think one of my top five was was perspective, right? And so I've noticed it it's very true. I often try to look at things from a bigger perspective, not just right in that moment, you know? And so I think it's important for athletes to remember that as they're training, especially a lot of you know, a lot of post-collegiate uh people that are just recreational runners trying to achieve these goals. You have to remember what's going on in your life, you have to remember the stressors that you're going through. Um not everybody is approaching each run completely fresh, total, totally well rested, nine hours of sleep. I've eaten the perfect diet for the past week. Uh the temperature is perfect. Yeah, uh, the conditions for the workout are just great. And I know I can absolutely hit these times. You have to remember that sometimes that's not the case, right? Yeah, uh, you are fatigued from a long day at work. Uh, your kids were keeping you up all night, and so you got three hours of sleep. Yep. Um, you yeah, whatever, you know, like your your diet hasn't been great because you've been working, you know, 70 hour weeks and you've had to, you know, kind of eat not as healthy, you know, throughout the the the week, the week and uh just understand those things. And so um having perspective that the effort is important in what you're doing and the times you you know, your your coach gives you times, they but but they also have to be realistic with what you're capable of. And we do it, I know I do it at the collegiate level. I do that, and and I and and we're dealing with athletes that have less things going on, like they do have things going on, but this is also an important part of their college experience. Yeah, um, we still have to have perspective, right? Ah, you're not able to hit this time today. That's okay. Let's aim for this because this is really where you're at right now, given the circumstances. Well, it's even more so, I think, once you once you're kind of out in the real world and you're um you're living life, like you really have to have that perspective and understand that you can't always hit times because it's the situation will not always be perfect, you know? Yeah, now race day, hopefully that's a different story, right? Hopefully you're tapered and you're you're well rested, you've eaten well, yeah, and then you can make big jumps, right? But um, I think that's really important. Um, and um I know with anybody I coach, that's absolutely gonna be a big, a big uh factor in you know what we're trying to figure out is given given the circumstances of where you're at, what is realistic for you to achieve, right? Yeah, yeah. Um, so yeah, so as far as you know, yes about discipline passion, you know, someone that's maybe struggling with that. Um, I do think going back to your why is really important. Why am I doing what I am doing? Um, I think establishing some sort of accountability, having people around you uh that you can um tell like you if you come up with a goal, you should not be afraid to tell people it.

Jacob Phillips 32:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Why? If you think you can do it, tell people you want to do it, right? Yeah, um, what are you afraid of? Um and so I think like uh stating that goal. Um, I think it sometimes uh gives us that that additional discipline to want to pursue what we're doing because we put it out there now. People know about it, right? Yep. Uh and we have people encouraging, whether it be a spouse or a family, another family member or friends, or maybe a community of runners that you're with, like they now have something that they can hold you accountable for. Um I think that can help with your discipline. Um, I also think one trick that I use with a lot of my athletes now is um I think um writing writing your goals down and putting it somewhere in your house or in your room or whatever. You know, if you want to, if it's whatever, it's 329 in the marathon and that's the Boston qualifier, like write that time down. Yeah, write it in three different post-its, put it on your mirror so you see it every time you wake up and you go to the bathroom, you see, oh, okay, I'm 329. Yep, that's what that's what my goal is. So you're reminded of what you're pursuing. Yeah. I think that'll contribute to your passion, that'll contribute to your discipline. Um, I I would also say that um, you know, everybody's wired a little differently, whether um, you know, like whether you're coming from a faith perspective or whatever perspective you're coming from, like you have things that are built into your identity. Um, I think like digging into digging into those things a little bit, you know, um like like being like having those things help develop your your passion for the things you're pursuing. Um I think is really important, allowing your identity to fuel um your passion a little bit. Um for sure. But but yeah, so I and and uh but I I think um it is important that people are a part of your journey though. Um because if you're trying to do it on your own, then it's real easy to be undisciplined. Yep. Um, because you have no one holding you accountable.

Jacob Phillips 34:52

Yep, 100%. When I was a post-collegiate, I and this is before you know the internet was, I mean, like I guess the internet was still around, but like you didn't have the cell phones, right? Like as as often as and like I just used to love emailing my coach and being like or calling my coach, and because we weren't texting back then, it was like I nailed the work out. And so when you talk about this idea of accountability, like, and I'm gonna plug run doy in here, like man, every time they upload a run to final search, I get a notification. Like, as an athlete, that would have fired me up. My coach is about to see this run, you know. Like that would have been the accountability that I needed, you know. And uh, you know, you talked about like speaking these goals. Um, I I saw this yesterday, uh, and I saw it on Twitter, but it was talking about how you ever heard SMART, you know, like that kind of acronym that they've used for goals. They would say SMART. I don't even know what that means, right? But they said now there's a new acronym, it's called FAST. So you want fast goals, and it's frequently discussed, right? And that's what you're talking about. Speak the goal, frequently discussed, uh, ambitious, specific, and transparent. But like I like that idea of speak your goal, right? Like, and I'm a big believer you can speak things into existence, you know, and so like like frequently talking about it, frequently discussing it, and like speaking it, like, hey, look, I'm I'm gonna run 329, I'm gonna, I'm gonna hit that BQ, I'm gonna do this, right? Um, because like otherwise you're just lying to yourself, right? If you're not going out and doing the work. And so that there's sort of an accountability in speaking it, right? And so, um, but I I love what you said about perspective. I think like as a coach, our job is to uh, you know, I tell my kids this all the time, we're supposed to see the forest, not the tree. And a lot of times they see the tree, right? But we see the forest. And and I think like just having that perspective of we're dealing with it right now in the South. It's so hot and humid, like it's nearly impossible to hit paces that you would have hit, you know, a month ago, two months ago, right? Whether that's easy runs, long runs. I've got I've got so many clients training for Berlin, Chicago, New York City, and it's really hard uh to train for those marathons right now. It's super hard, right? But the perspective is if you lit listen to your body, you don't you don't just uh let the paces be the the mandate, right? They're more like guidelines. It will pay off when we get those cooler temperatures, hopefully, uh for sure in Berlin, but but hopefully uh Chicago be cool and and New York City be cool. But um, love all that. We we don't have much time left. Um just I I guess just closing it out. Like one, I think I think this was just a great conversation on just coaching just in general, right? And and I think like if you're listening to this out there, you can pick up on these different keys that you could see we're we're diving into, right? Communication, perspective, intentionality, your why, you know, that stuff, accountability, et cetera. But like, I guess like closing statements, right? Like, what excites you about being a coach?

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Yeah, well, um, I think at my core, I love um building something up or helping someone get from point A to point B, um, establishing the framework for how how are we going to get there? What's our goal? How are we going to get there? What are the processes we need to put in place to be able to get there? Yeah. Um obviously doing it from a team setting, but also doing it from an individual setting. Um I think it's just enjoyable to be able to put together the pieces of something that can be very successful. And I think um one thing I would I would add about goal setting is uh if you're going to set a goal, you need to you need to understand that your coach needs to hold you accountable for that goal. And and they're going to give you the they're going to give you the things they believe you need to do to achieve that goal. So if somebody says, I would like to achieve, I'd like to run 220 in the marathon, okay. Well, understand this is what I think you're actually going to need to do to get there, right? And so from an athlete to coach perspective, uh, if you're going to put out a goal there as an athlete and say, I'd like to achieve that, understand that the coach needs to be realistic with you and tell you what it would take to get there, right? Yeah. Um so I do that with my athletes all the time. You know, they they might we'll meet in between seasons and they'll say, Hey, I'd uh here's my goal for for this distance, and I'll say, Well, here's my goal for you for this distance. And if we're off, we'll have to we need to come to an agreement on it because they need to understand what it will take to get there, right? And so uh you cannot you cannot just state a goal and expect that it will magically occur with any sort of training program whatsoever. No, it there are there are realistic goals. Uh, I think there are goals that are realistic, there are goals that are stretch goals, but you can still have them, and there are goals that are maybe impossible unless you're willing to jump up significantly in your level of commitment. And so I think establishing realistic goals where you understand all the steps that it will take to get there, what the coach believes you need to be doing uh day in and day out, week in and week out, uh, and then agreeing on that, I think is really important. Otherwise, again, you'll be you'll be you'll be setting yourself up for failure, like we we kind of talked about. And so that will be important for me with any client I work with. I want to make sure like we are on the same page, we understand that we we agree on the goal and we we agree on the steps that it will take to achieve that goal.

Jacob Phillips 40:10

No doubt. And and and when a goal excites you, like man, like as a coach, you know, when whenever your client or your athletes come in and they've got a goal that you believe they can hit, but it's one of those they're gonna stretch for, like, like that's exciting for us because you know you said it we're we're builders, you know, coaches we're builders and we want to see it through and we want to see what we can create. And and uh Sean, this was fun. Uh definitely gonna have you back on the podcast. But uh I'm gonna put I'm gonna put uh your rundoy in contact uh below in the show notes. And uh yeah, this is a great conversation, man. I'm excited to uh we're gonna bump into each other anyways at nationals in a few months, but uh hopefully we can get on here before that and and uh do it again. That sound good?

SPEAKER_01 40:49

Sounds great, man. Anytime, always always uh pleasure to talk to you, my friend. And uh yeah, great to great to be a part of Run Doyne, and I'm excited to start coaching.

Jacob Phillips 40:58

Yeah, it's gonna be fun, man. We'll talk to you later.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

All right, see ya.

Jacob Phillips 41:01

Bye. And that does it for this month's episode of the Next Level Running Podcast. I want to thank Coach Sean for his time and for a great conversation. I'm really excited to see how his teams do this fall semester. But before I go, I want to encourage everyone to get out and get in your run today. I have been lazy this week and finally decided to get up this morning and get my run in. And let me tell you, I feel so much better because of it. We will be back in August with another Instagram live replay, as well as another full form edition of the Next Level Running Podcast. So, until next time, have a great run. Thank you for joining us here on the Next Level Running Podcast, your source for training advice from the expert coaches at Rundoyan. If you're ready to take your training and racing to the next level, head over to Rundoyan.com and get matched to your ideal coach who will provide you with the highly customized online training you need for crushing your goals on race day.