The Long Run w/ Coach Olivia Pratt

In this month's episode of The Next Level Running Podcast we have Coach Olivia Pratt discussing the Long Run and it's roll in Marathon Training. Coach Olivia is no stranger to the marathon or the long run, as she is a US Olympic Trials Qualifier in the Marathon and boasts a personal best of 2:34 from Chicago in 2022. Coach Olivia runs professional for the Hansons-Brooks and is a 3-time US Olympic Trials Qualifier (2 x 10K, 1 x Marathon). This was a fun conversation that I hope you will enjoy! 

Connect with Coach Olivia Pratt:
https://www.rundoyen.com/running-coaches/olivia-pratt/

Check out RunDoyen if you are looking for a World Class Expert Run Coach to help you crush your running goals: https://www.rundoyen.com/

If you aren't quite ready for a Run Coach, check out the Doyen Dashers Program:
https://www.rundoyen.com/dashers/

Follow @RunDoyen for IG Live sessions:
https://www.instagram.com/rundoyen/

Join the Next Level Running Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/nextlevelrunning

Questions for me: 
https://www.rundoyen.com/running-coaches/jacob-phillips/

Transcript

Jacob Phillips 0:17

This is the Next Level Running Podcast, brought to you by the expert coaches at Rundoyan, helping runners of all levels crush their goals on race day by matching with the perfect coach for training plan. Hello, and welcome back to the Next Level Running Podcast. I'm your host, Jacob Phillips, and we've got a fun one for you this week. I've got professional runner, three-time U.S. Olympic trials qualifier, Olivia Pratt. We're talking about the long run in the marathon. We're talking about the role of the long run, what constitutes a long run, her experience as a professional marathoner with the long run. This is a fun conversation. So if you've got a uh a fall marathon coming up, or or you're looking ahead to potentially running the marathon, we're talking about the role of the long run. Fun conversation. But before we jump into that, I want to point you to the show notes below. I'm going to have Coach Olivia's contact info. You can check out her bio, her philosophy, and try to connect with her if you're looking for uh a coach to help you crush your running goals. Um if you're not quite ready for a full-time coach, check out the Doyen Dashers. Uh this is a for$39 a month. This is a trial run at a uh coaching program. It's written, it's a it's a program for you, written by uh some of our world-class expert run coaches here at Run Doyen, um, but you don't have the the rigidity of uh having a full-time coach. You don't have that full accountability. You've got a great plan that works for your goal and it gives you some flexibility with it. I tried it in the spring, loved it, uh, and I would highly recommend that if you're not quite ready for a full-time coach. I also want to point you to uh at Run Doyen on Instagram. Hey, go click that follow button if you haven't done that yet. We have live sessions each month with our uh uh world-class expert run coaches. There is good running content in there, whether you want to be uh you're looking for something fun, whether you're looking for something motivational, it's all there. Uh but if Instagram isn't uh quite your jam, go check out the next level running Facebook group on Facebook. It's the same type of content that we've got pumping out there on Instagram, but it's on Facebook, which is uh a little bit more uh interactive and user-friendly. Um but for the for now, let's jump in. We're we're talking with uh Hanson's Brooks runner, professional runner, three-time Olympic trials qualifier, Olivia Pratt. And we're talking about the long run. Hi Hi Olivia, how are you?

SPEAKER_04 2:43

Hi, I'm doing well. How are you?

Jacob Phillips 2:45

I'm good, I'm good. We're uh we're hopefully getting this much closer to fall. You know, it's uh I'm in I'm in Texas, it's hot. So yes. Yeah, it's it's still like 90 plus degrees. Are are you in Michigan?

SPEAKER_04 2:58

Yeah, I am.

Jacob Phillips 2:58

How's that going?

SPEAKER_04 3:00

It's been it's been unpredictable, it's been all over the place. Like two days ago, I was running in 90 degree heat with to me pretty brutal humidity, but today was like high 50s during my run.

Jacob Phillips 3:13

Wow, yeah, that's I felt amazing. Yeah, that's that is not uh yeah, we're we just started cross-country season and you know a couple weeks back, and it's uh every morning it looks like the kids have gone swimming, you know. So, but uh, but hey, so your new Rondoyan coach, uh about how long ago did you start with Run Doyan?

SPEAKER_04 3:30

I mean, honestly, I think I just started working with my first athlete like two weeks ago, maybe three weeks ago. It really hasn't been a very long time.

Jacob Phillips 3:39

Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. Well, well, welcome to the Rundoyan family. And uh I want to give just uh, you know, we're gonna talk about the role of the long run in in marathon training, and and uh I think you're you've got some you probably got some good insight on that, right? With your with your background and such, but one to just kind of give a background on you. So so I know you ran at Butler University and you're now running for for for Hanson's Brooks. When did you start running? How'd you how'd you get into the sport?

SPEAKER_04 4:06

Um, you know, I started as a freshman in high school, I guess a little bit before that. Um, I was like on a youth track club over the summer. Um, I remember we didn't have enough coaches with the club to coach distance. So me and one of my teammates were the oldest, were the coaches. Yeah. Like the head coach was like, we trust you to write training. And we're like, we're 13, 14 years old, but okay, let's go.

Jacob Phillips 4:33

Let's do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:34

Um yeah, but you know, I started out as a competitive swimmer, and you know, I remember going to practice with like a knot in my stomach because I I was always so nervous for practice. And by the time I was done swimming at the end of middle school, I thought I just didn't like sports. Um, but my dad stepped in and signed me up for track and then cross country in the fall, and I realized I just didn't really love competitive swimming. Yeah. You know, but I loved running and I loved cross country. That was like my first real introduction to the sport. And that's that's been my path since then is just following where running has taken me.

Jacob Phillips 5:13

That's awesome. And that that took you to Butler University, ran there, and now uh professionally, post-collegiately with with uh yeah, with Hanson's Brooks since I think you said since 2017.

SPEAKER_04 5:24

Yeah, it's been a little while.

Jacob Phillips 5:25

That's that's that's a that's a lot of Keith and Kevin, you know. So but uh you know, um, so I've got your I've got your PRs as and so you could correct me if I'm wrong on any of these, but 1526 for the 5K is that I mean that's that that's a subfive minute pace. I mean that's moving, right? And then 3148 for 10K, uh 110.57 for the half, and then 234.22 in the marathon in Chicago. Is that right?

SPEAKER_04 5:48

Yep, that's correct.

Jacob Phillips 5:50

So so you ran Olympic trials 10K this summer and the marathon trials back in in February this year.

SPEAKER_04 5:57

Yeah, it's been a busy year.

Jacob Phillips 5:58

Yeah, that's awesome. And so how was uh so I had an athlete run in in in uh where was it, Jacksonville? And so like I know the or was it Orlando? It was Orlando, Orlando, yeah, Orlando, and so the the weather was was hot, humid. How'd you feel about the weather and the course?

SPEAKER_04 6:13

You know, we were down there training for six weeks before the race, which was a long time to be at a training camp away from your friends and family, yeah. Um, but we were there to really get used to the the heat and humidity. But to be honest, you know, it wasn't that hot or humid leading up to the race, yeah, uh for us anyway. So I I was hit harder than I expected. And I think I started to really feel it just around like mile 10. And there's there's a point on the course, you go around this park and there's not a lot of shade, and the sun was very strong, and I just feel my skin burning. Yep, you know, yeah. So yeah, it was it was a huge challenge, I think for a lot of us is reflected in you know, the finishing times of a lot of athletes who didn't have you know as great of a day as they'd hoped. But you know, I mean that's that's part of the sport, you know. It was it was hot in Paris too. So, you know, we were able to simulate those those conditions.

Jacob Phillips 7:13

Yeah, yeah. And and I think like, you know, the the young lady I coached, she was she was 20th or 21st in 2020. And then I don't know, I think she was 62nd or something in this one or whatever, but it was like, yeah, same. She said the same thing at about 10 miles. It just felt like, man, my quads are like gone, like and so it hit pretty quick. And so yeah, I just assumed it was I wasn't able to make the trip. We had an indoor track meet, you know. So, like, um, but so the two Olympic trials this this you know, this year, did you make the Olympic trials in 2020 in either the track or I guess I guess I guess I'd be 2021 for the track.

SPEAKER_04 7:48

Yeah, I made it the first time I made it to the trials was for the track in 2021. Oh wow and also that was I don't know if you remember, but that was in the middle of like a historic heat wave in the Pacific Northwest. Yes, and they had to uh reschedule our race for earlier in the day because they were originally gonna have us run at 5 p.m.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 8:09

Um, and even after they rescheduled it for the morning, you know, Alicia Monson, who finished, I think, second that day, you know, she ended up in the hospital with heat exhaustion.

Jacob Phillips 8:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 8:21

So it was yeah.

Jacob Phillips 8:24

Your your Olympic trials uh experiences have been have been warm and humid, right? It's always hot.

SPEAKER_04 8:29

It's always hot at the trials. Yeah, that's uh yeah.

Jacob Phillips 8:32

Maybe maybe, you know, maybe if in in you know the next four years it'll be it'll be a little cooler for the at least for the marathon one, right? So but um well, very cool. Yeah, so you've got a you've obviously got a got a huge background on whether it's the track or all the way up to the marathon, which I think is plays into what we want to talk about today, which is is the role of the long run in marathon training. And so it's kind of interesting though, too, because I was thinking about this like uh I don't even know how long ago it was, but the Hanson's marathon method came out probably the mid 2010s. I can't remember exactly when, but it was this big guy, this big idea. Uh, and I don't want to give away any of their secrets if it, if that's you know, not uh it's all in a book. It's all in a book, right? But yeah, they were they were real big on, at least for the public, and I know maybe the pros are doing something a little different, on this idea of 16 miles, cumulative fatigue. And so that kind of changed the idea, right? I mean, like when I when I work with a client who's never run either never run a marathon or the furthest they've done is a half, I always think immediately we got to get to 20 miles at some point, right? And so so, anyways, so I'm just curious what one, what constitutes a long run for you in marathon training? Is it like is it a certain distance, a certain length? Like what constitutes a long run? And where are you trying to get that long run? Is it the 16 miles? Is it 20? If you're a beginner, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_04 9:50

Yeah, I think it really depends on the the level of athlete you are. Um, you know, I like I've I've read about how long long runs should be. I've experienced plenty of you know marathon training myself. Um, I think, you know, something I think it was Jack Daniels who's maybe writing about this, but you know, sure, maybe we want to expose uh a novice marathon or two the experience of a long run so they're prepared on race day.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:21

But you know, if you are training for a five-hour marathon, you know, you're basically trying to complete a marathon, yeah, going out and running a 20-mile long run, that's gonna take a very long time. Yeah, like to the point where it's like an inappropriately long time to cause more damage than any benefit you could gain. So, you know, I think um the like the Hansen's marathon method that you read about in the book that is more geared towards like non-pro runners. For sure. Um, yeah, it maxes out at 16 miles. Um, and even then there's a little bit of wiggle room depending on what your actual maximile, like your maximum weekly mileage is.

SPEAKER_03 11:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:04

Um, but you know, it really shouldn't be more than 30% of your maximum mileage. For sure. Um and then in addition to that, it probably shouldn't be longer than two and a half to three hours. Um, because you have to, you have like you have to be able to recover from that long run, you know, so that you can get back to it and keep training and keep getting stronger. You don't want to dig yourself into too much of a hole. And the way I see marathon training is like there aren't always a lot of thrilling heroics in marathon training, right? Yeah, it's like stacking like B plus workouts on B plus workouts for months until you're ready for race day.

Jacob Phillips 11:48

Yes, yeah, well, so so so yeah, I love all that, and I and I like that you hit like this idea of a percentage of what you might be doing in a week, right? Because you know, if you're if you're running if you're not running a lot, you can't just stack whatever, you know, you you've got to go long, but you can't just say we're gonna do it all on this one run, right? You've got to kind of and and that was that idea of that cumulative fatigue. Hey, look, you went X amount of miles yesterday, X amount of miles the day before that, and now we're doing 12, 14, 16 miles. And I like you put that time range on there because you're right, right? Like if you're trying to do 20 miles and you're running at X pace, that's you might be out there for four hours. You might not be out there for three and a half, four hours, and and yeah, you're probably doing more harm than good on that. Um, so when you're training for the marathon, like how far are you typically going at your longest?

SPEAKER_04 12:36

Our longest runs are 20 miles.

Jacob Phillips 12:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 12:39

And we'll usually only do three or four of those for a marathon segment.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

Gotcha. Awesome.

SPEAKER_04 12:44

Um, you know, we'll like I I'm in a marathon segment right now. Um, I'm training for the Indy Monumental uh in November. And I just ran my first like long run today, and it was 16 miles. Gotcha. You know, the next one will probably be 18, and after that, it might be 20. So it's like, you know, I'm still building up. Yeah, I don't go straight into it with 20 miles. Yeah, you know, because it's an undertaking. Yeah, yeah. No matter how fast you run it, yeah.

Jacob Phillips 13:10

For sure. So how like are those? So your 16 miler today, like, is that you're just putting time on your feet, or y'all trying to run a certain effort? Like, is it a minute slower than goal marathon pace? Is it like, what does that look like for you? Is it conversational? Like, what does that look like?

SPEAKER_04 13:24

Sometimes, sometimes uh it's kind of free form. And sometimes we're given like, okay, you're gonna have go miles today. Yes. Um, which just means, you know, say you've got 20 miles and you might run between miles 15 to 18, you'll run three miles at marathon base, or what feels like it, you know, you're just trying to get that effort level in.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:45

Um, today it was just like I wasn't really given any direction. And honestly, I I went a little fast, maybe a little faster than I should have, but um, it's my first workout since uh the uh trials uh at the at the end of June. So I've just been like ready to go for a while. Yeah. Um I just kind of I just kind of let it rip a little bit because it was fun and it made me happy.

Jacob Phillips 14:07

Yeah, yeah. It's just yeah, almost free form, like you said, right? You feel good, you you run good. So, how often do you guys uh just in your setup, how do you do it weekly? Is it you know every 10 days? What does that look like for you?

SPEAKER_04 14:19

Yeah, our we're it depends on what we're training for. But I guess, yeah, when we're doing a marathon segment, oftentimes we have three days of recovery running in between every workout, okay. Uh, which is kind of a lot, honestly. But you know, we're hitting really high mileage. Um, so no day is really feels like that much of a recovery day because you might be running 12 miles in the morning and six miles in the evening. Yeah. Um, so it is very helpful and maybe a little more sustainable to have a long, longish break in between your quality days. Yeah. Um, probably every third workout is a long run. So I would say like every week and a half to almost two weeks.

Jacob Phillips 15:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:04

Is when we do our long runs.

Jacob Phillips 15:05

For sure. And so, like with that being spaced out, it it might be okay to kind of let it rip a little bit like you did today. So when when you're doing these these go miles, and and uh I I've been I've been watching the the docuseries on YouTube of um Clayton Young. He just ran the Olympic marathon. And and they every almost every long run that they did up until probably a few weeks out from Paris, it was it's they had four or five three mile, what it sounds like go miles. It was it was a three, four, five mile tempo within the last few miles of the long run, and then they would cool down a mile or two. And so it sounds like you guys are doing that. And so you so that's what I would consider like a workout long run. And so, like, like when you're doing that, like is it so? Let's say you you said something maybe like 20 miles where miles 15 to 18 might be a three mile tempo. Are you running 15 continuous miles, stopping, putting your racing shoes on, taking some water, or are you going straight into that?

SPEAKER_04 16:00

We just go straight into it, you know. Um, some people rate wear their race shoes for a whole long run, too. That's kind of like a new phenomenon.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:09

Um, you know, I I've been running professionally long enough that like, you know, back in 2017 when I started, we didn't all have super shoes. They were relatively new concepts. Um, so you know, no one was really going out at that point running long runs and super shoes yet.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:26

Um, because not everybody had them.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:29

Um, but that that is a whole nother a whole nother conversation about what kind of shoes are best for a long run. Yeah. And say whatever feels best.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

Yeah, no doubt.

SPEAKER_04 16:38

Um, but yeah, you know, I actually think when we have long runs assigned to us with go miles, it actually helps us keep our effort level under control a little bit because um sometimes we just we just get so ambitious and like excited about our like long run, yeah, that if we're not given some sort of guidance, we we almost get into a little bit of a race mentality.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:04

So we might be like running sub six minute miles for many miles on end, and then we don't even want to like cool down because we're like, oh no, I gotta go as fast as I can. And it's like, well, you've been running at like a workout effort, like you gotta cool down. It's better for you to do that. You can't get it too attached to your overall pace. So when we are told explicitly, like, hey, you know, you're gonna run a steady pace, maybe a little fast, but not too fast, and then you're gonna run go miles for three, and then you're gonna cool down. It really kind of takes that like you know, mind game off the table. Yeah. That you end up playing with yourself sometimes, and you're just like, no, I just have to do what I've been told.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:44

You know, the go miles are what matters. Everything else is like, you know, window dressing.

Jacob Phillips 17:48

Yeah, you almost don't want to mess up that that three mile segment or whatever, right? So you're like, keep this in control so we can be really good, really dialed in on that, on that three miles at marathon pace. And like, if you think about it, like like running marathon pace on the tired legs is is kind of, I mean, that's kind of the whole point, right? And so, like, that's uh yeah, I mean, that's that's a great workout. I mean, I think just this idea of especially when you get past this idea of I just want to complete a marathon, but I'm starting to I want to run a certain pace, I want to qualify for boss, and I want to hold this pace. Well, you better be able to hold that pace when you're tired, right? And so if you're doing that miles 15 to 18 or or whatever it might be for for that individual, like that's a tough, tough workout. Uh let me ask you, and and maybe maybe this is something y'all haven't done you know recently, but there used to be with Hanson's the marathon simulator, like the 26.2k. Have you done have you done that? I mean, because that's a that's a I mean 26.2k is like 16 you know miles, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:42

About 16 miles. Yeah. Yeah.

Jacob Phillips 18:43

I mean, so I mean, like that's that's a long run, right? And so like, so what exactly is that? Are you running race pace for these 16 miles? Like, what is what does that look like?

SPEAKER_04 18:52

Yeah, there are a couple of different ways that we do the simulator. So sometimes uh the Hansens will send us to a half marathon and we'll just run an extra long warm-up and cool down. Um, we're running on heavy tired legs, you know, you've run like 12, 14, whatever miles the day before. Yeah. Um, and you just run at if you're running, if you're at a half marathon race, typically what'll happen is you're told run marathon pace for 10 miles, and then you can go the last three miles, and you can go fast as fast as you can, as fast as you want to go for those last three miles. Um, and then another way we've done it is kind of the more like traditional Hansons, like 16 miles or 26.2 kilometer simulator, which won't be at a race, and you're just out there with your teammates, um, you know, on some roads somewhere in a park or whatever, just grinding it out. And we're not usually assigned to go miles in that case, it's just just go marathon race for 16. Um, and to be honest, I I kind of prefer the the 16 miles.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:58

It it's so much harder um to like not be in a race environment and have to get your brain into like race mode. Um, I just feel like it's a it's a bigger challenge for me, and I come out the other end of it feeling more prepared for the actual marathon.

SPEAKER_03 20:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:17

Whereas going to a half marathon is super fun and enjoyable to just be at a race, but that race environment almost almost makes it too easy.

Jacob Phillips 20:28

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're kind of, yeah, the adrenalines go in, you've got the uniform on. I mean, and I'm sure you're wearing the uniform for the simulator too, or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

But I do, yeah.

Jacob Phillips 20:35

So um so so question about that, right? With with the so I actually have a couple questions. The first, the first question is, is you know, you because you said you kind of prefer that 16 mile just lock in and go. What's the hardest marathon workout or long-run workout that you'll do in your training build up or the for to you, like the one that's the most most challenging to you?

SPEAKER_04 20:59

Usually it's the one with the hottest weather.

Jacob Phillips 21:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:03

No, no doubt.

SPEAKER_04 21:04

During during the trials buildup, it was the simulator.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:08

Um, you know, the handson set up a course that was kind of funny. It was like we're on sidewalks and then running through a little subdivision, coming back. We did that four times.

SPEAKER_03 21:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:18

It's weird to do a workout on sidewalks. Like, I don't know. I'm like, wasn't used to that anymore. Um, but yeah, I didn't even really think about it until I was done. But I realized at the end, I was like, oh, this is the hottest, most humid workout we've done so far by far.

Jacob Phillips 21:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:36

Um, and it yeah, it turned me inside out. I was a mess.

Jacob Phillips 21:42

Training, like training for fall marathons, especially where I were like in the south or on the east coast, like it's so hard because the humidity, the heat, so it makes it so much harder, right? And like, uh, but if you're if you're preparing for um, if you're preparing for a race that's out there like you guys were doing, then it makes a lot of sense. Like it's like, I mean.

SPEAKER_04 22:00

this is a this is a a struggle right this is a suffer fest but i'm preparing myself for what's coming so with that um when you're doing either the go mile long run you know these these quality long runs well any any longer are you practicing your hydration your nutrition like during the runs like how often are you doing that like is that on is that like today did you practice that or is it like no we'll do that later like what does that look like today I practiced it today um my coaches uh we had other athletes doing other workouts so my coaches really just like put a table out there with my bottles and we're like go have fun yeah um but yeah you you know almost always they will be out there every three to four miles with our bottles we you know we all choose what fluids we want to hydrate with um some of us will use a mixture of you know electrolyte electrolytes and carb mixes or gels like we all have our own methods to be honest I'm still figuring out what works best for me um but I just think it's so important to kind of develop a hydration and nutrition plan for race day and practice it during your long runs also just your your longer workouts yeah um really like anything potentially longer than like an hour like you know you might want to consider like bringing a gel with you so you're just getting your stomach accustomed to what that feels like to be taking fueling in.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

No doubt.

SPEAKER_04 23:29

Yeah because you don't you like the saying always goes like no surprises on race day nothing new on race day don't try something new.

Jacob Phillips 23:37

Yeah yeah so like when you're gonna do the 16 miler this morning like are you thinking like so because like on race day you're gonna get up you're probably gonna have some breakfast right even if it's a light breakfast are you doing that on a day like today or is that something that will be reserved for either a simulator the go miles like like you know I'm saying are you are you are you almost running through that race morning routine for your long runs or are you saving that for these special efforts that you're gonna have I am such a creature of habit in the morning when I have a workout like if I do not have an English muffin with peanut butter and jelly and I have a coffee like something's wrong.

SPEAKER_04 24:14

So like and that carries over to race day you know like and it's it's tough when you're in a race environment you don't always know that you're gonna be able to get exactly what you want for breakfast. You know the hotel you're in might not have a toaster available or a microwave. So you've got to have a plan B. You have to know what works for you and that kind of stuff comes with practice.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:37

So you know I I don't always get on race day an English muffin with peanut butter and jelly. It might be oatmeal it might be a clip bar it might be something else. But also I mean you know it's not just about race day it's also about you know the week the couple days leading up to race day making sure you're eating and drinking enough so that you've got you know stores of energy.

Jacob Phillips 24:59

For sure. For sure and like obviously you're running a lot like you know you talked about this idea of 12 miles in the morning six miles in the afternoon the day before a long run or whatever or workout. And so like maybe it's a little different for you but like but typically when you do have like maybe a 20 miler coming up are you doing something different the day before the night before to prepare for that longer run that longer workout or is it just kind of sticking to your habits and your your your routine sticking to the habits honestly I mean to me marathon training feels so different than like really any other kind of training and it's just it's probably mostly just the mileage.

SPEAKER_04 25:36

Yeah you know I during track season I probably ran a maximum of like 90 miles a week which at this point after many many years of running like that that doesn't feel too crazy to me. Yeah but you know I the most I've run in a marathon segment is 120 miles a week and that 30 miles makes a huge difference. And so like just the the sheer amount of food I need to eat in order to feel like a functioning human being is incredible. No and so it's it's not about like oh I need to do something different the night before a long run. It's really just like I need to keep doing the right thing and making sure that I'm you know filling up my fuel tank every day so that I can perform at a high level and stay healthy and keep training.

Jacob Phillips 26:24

That that that makes a ton of sense and I think like yeah I mean like you're yeah 90 miles a week I mean that's a lot of running you know most of the clients that we're gonna we're gonna interact with probably aren't going to run that much right and so but but it's all relative, right? And so I think like whereas the the 90 miles to 120 miles a week that you're that you're doing whether it's track season or marathon training or half marathon training or whatever like that might that might equate to the fact that they're having to run at 430 in the morning because they got to commute into work and that sort of stuff. And so yeah you've got to take care of yourself make sure the fuel tanks uh filled up and stuff but let's go back to the um you know the the the the client that's trying to either complete their first marathon or they say man like hey look I got into I got into New York City I'm I'm just trying to figure this out like like how are you um or or what I I guess like are you looking at it as okay the because we're talking about just this idea of completing the marathon we're not talking about a pace we're talking about completing a marathon yeah like is it one of those things where you're gonna assign minutes or miles? Like are you going to say hey don't go past this you know we talked about this two and a half three hours obviously it's gonna be different per per individual but like is there a certain marker where in your head you're thinking yeah I think they can complete this because they've hit X is there a mark for that for you going going between like minutes and miles is so dependent on the athlete I think especially with more beginner athletes I've been leaning towards the minutes over miles simply because they are still figuring out what is an appropriate effort level they're still figuring out what is the right pace to run.

SPEAKER_04 28:01

Yep you know what does easy pace feel like what does moderate pace feel like and so you know sometimes like I was just like okay today we're doing you know 45 minutes and the mileage is going to shake out to whatever it shakes out at because you're still learning what it feels like to train for a marathon. You know yeah so I just I find that the minutes going by time method to be just a little bit more flexible. Yep um and then you know yeah a more experienced athlete or somebody who's just used to using miles I will absolutely stick with that sometimes I'll have a range like other person's used to just like I'll say six to six to eight miles.

Jacob Phillips 28:42

Yeah so it gives them the flexibility of if they have extra time today they can run a little bit more or if they're feeling extra tired because they were up in the middle of the night taking care of a kid yeah you know makes sense yeah they can take it a little easier yeah no doubt no doubt so with with um you know you've got a you know this this such such a huge background of you know 5k cross country all the way up to the marathon like does the long run look different for you when you're doing 5K to half marathon training versus the marathon like I mean like what does that look like I mean will you peak out at 16 will you still do 20 do you still do the go miles what does that look like I mean is it is it a big difference between marathon training long run and non-marathon training long run?

SPEAKER_04 29:27

It is a little different. We typically peak out at 16 miles if we're training for a half marathon down um and if we have go miles they aren't necessarily meant to be at marathon pace or anything they can just be like go. Yeah so you know they might be faster it's also just easier to go faster because your legs are fresher and you're training for faster events. So they're just ready to go quick.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:52

Yeah and I I'm a little bit less particular about like my fueling and hydration um when I'm not training for a marathon just because I don't have to worry about fueling and hydration in those shorter races nearly as much. So it's like okay if I don't have the exact gels that I prefer I'm not gonna be too fussed about it. I'm just gonna just gonna eat what I got.

Jacob Phillips 30:16

Yeah yeah yeah yeah well and and you you ran 70 minutes for the half I mean that's 520 pace right I mean it's probably 522 pace or something like that. Like like that's flying. And so are you taking anything during that race?

SPEAKER_04 30:28

I had a gel with me uh-huh just in case yeah but I didn't use it. Yeah yeah um it's almost just like a comfort thing like you know just in case something happens.

Jacob Phillips 30:39

Because when you're when you're yeah when you're running 70 minutes for a race and you're I mean yeah you you you don't really you might depending on the weather I guess but you probably don't need it at that at that effort. When you ran 234 in Chicago like was that because I know that the Hansons are notorious for the even splits or the negative splits. I mean like like was that one of those things where um like were you pretty even throughout like how'd that go for you?

SPEAKER_04 31:02

That was probably the most that was definitely the most evenly split marathon I've done um here's the thing with me and marathons I vomit in every marathon. Really I have vomited in every marathon. Because of the jail yeah or or the drink or anxiety like it's something it's so annoying. Yeah and uh but sometimes it's worse than others and Chicago in was it 2022 it was it was a better day than any other marathon day I've had the weather was cooler. Yeah so I think my body was absorbing fluids and carbs better. Yeah um I think you know someone someone out there is going to be more informed on this than I am but you know when it's hotter I believe your your stomach just doesn't absorb things as easily um so you like sometimes you might have to tweak what you're gonna be drinking or eating on this and not to get you know too much into your business but is it early in the race is it late in the race like when when is this happening? It's usually it's usually in the second half of the race. Yeah yeah so it's really like a you know you just gotta keep running yeah yeah and that's that's what it is is like it's it's so frustrating but you just can't let it get to you it it you gotta treat it like any other bump on the road. No doubt and you know I've had races where I've literally like bothered and had a bottle of fluids in my hand and started drinking immediately afterwards because it's like well I still I have to replace anything and everything I just lost.

Jacob Phillips 32:31

Yeah 100% how it is yeah you know that that was the hardest part for me I I could not figure out the fueling for the marathon I I think like and part of it is because I didn't practice it. I you know you said earlier you know like you need to train your your stomach you need to train your body to to take this stuff in and I you know I'm out there you know on my own sometimes my wife would bike with me but most of the times it was like yeah you know I don't really know if I'm gonna have time to grab this today or whatever. And then I'd get to race day and I would I would literally I would hit the wall I would run out of fuel I would I would start cramping up crazy because of because of probably dehydration you know and it's such an important thing. And I think you have to practice it. And I think like yeah you want to practice on your long workouts but the long run I mean like that is such a that is such a great chance to practice okay when am I doing this every you know you said earlier every three to four miles we're grabbing we're grabbing stuff right like you know whether it's every three to four miles or every 5k to 10k whatever it is just making sure you're getting that and you're practicing it because like I never ran my what I believed my potential was in the maritime because I I 21 22 24 I ran grandma's one year and I was just rolling through 24 and a half miles and cramped up and waddled in and it was like amazing what can happen in just a mile and a half. Yeah so so 24 and a half to 25 I think like that half mile took almost like nine minutes for me. I mean like it was like I mean I was I was delirious you know I barely made you know barely made it in and that was and that was still my PR I mean I I you know but it was just like I was so close you know I was a mile and a half from the finish and and uh but at some point your body runs out of fuel and and that's why it's so important to one train the body for the demands right you're doing these goal miles you're doing these longer runs you're training the body for the demands but you also have to you have to you have to learn how to the body has to learn how to take the fuel and and use it right and so um so I I would so I just kind of um a couple things I like to always end on. The first one is is like you know you you've obviously been running at a really high level for for uh quite some time now what is your favorite workout doesn't have to be the long run favorite workout that you do I my first love is cross country yeah so anytime my coach lets me get on the trails yeah I'm like over the moon I'm so happy yeah yeah do y'all do the the club or the USATF cross any that is a huge backbone of our program because once you're out of college there really aren't a ton of opportunities to race as a team.

SPEAKER_04 34:53

Yeah yeah um and club cross country is one of the main opportunities we get so yeah like last year um last December was the first time that I've been on this team and not run club cross yeah and I was upset because you're getting ready for the trials yeah yeah um yeah my coaches know that like that I want to be there and they're like sorry Olivia this is not your time because we're always training for the trials. But yeah I just uh I I wish I had more opportunities to run cross country as a postcollegiate runner.

Jacob Phillips 35:28

Yeah um so I'll take any opportunity I can get yeah maybe maybe maybe like you know they keep talking about maybe adding it to the Olympics or something or winter Olympics you know winter Olympics would be crazy. Yeah that'd be great that'd be that'd be kind of fun and so I guess like you know the the you know it's cool kind of hearing your your start to running it sounds like you you almost kind of got this this this kind of thrown into coaching at that young age of the summer track club or whatever that was you know but like as far as like you know when you're talking longer and we're talking the marathon as you as you you know as we sign off you know you're kind of introducing yourself to the to the run doing slash next level running podcast they work together you know that community like like what would be your biggest piece of advice for for athletes who are maybe looking to try to find a coach like they're not sure but they're like man maybe I'll try this you know I'm looking to maybe run my first marathon like what would be your advice uh to those who are kind of on the on the fence about finding a coach and and taking that leap I would say it's just if you are if you're maybe a beginner runner like running is a pretty simple sport right but it's also intimidating.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 36:32

And sometimes you just need somebody to lay it out for you and help guide you. Um you know it's it's almost like I think sometimes people just need permission to run. Yeah yeah I you know I work part-time in a running store right in hand's running shop and I cannot tell you the number of times I've had a customer come in and tell me oh you know I run five K's every month but I'm not a runner as if like there's some special certificate that gives you that makes you a runner makes you not a runner. And I think sometimes like that's just because for some reason people are intimidated by the sport of running sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 37:14

So I think sometimes it's just so helpful to have like you know someone who who can like walk that path of you.

Jacob Phillips 37:21

Yeah basically yeah I think that's I think that's the part right like someone someone to yeah just go on that journey with you and it's all relative. There's always gonna be someone slower there's always gonna be somebody faster and and if not just wait because that that'll come right but uh well Olivia this is this has been really cool. This has been really fun um thank you for for joining me with this tonight. I I'm excited to see how indie goes and uh you know and and all that kind of good stuff. That's a if the weather's good that's a that's a chance to be a really fast course. I hope it will be yeah I love I love indie that's where I went to college yes you're right yeah yeah but yeah Indianapolis yeah so yeah well I'm I'm I'm gonna be hoping for some for some cooler weather for you and and uh so you get a chance to enjoy that and uh yeah this is really fun I'm gonna put your uh run doing contact info uh in the show notes below and so this will come out in a couple days and uh yeah this is this is cool to introduce you to the to the to the to the audience but uh appreciate you good luck have fun running and uh yeah keep rocking and rolling yeah thank you great to chat with you today bye bye bye and that does it for our conversation tonight with Olivia Pratt Coach Olivia Pratt I want to thank her so much for her time her enthusiasm it was a great conversation I hope you enjoyed it don't forget to join us every month on the 13th and the 26th and we'll have new episodes of the Next Level Running podcast check out those show notes below there's some great links for you whether you want to connect with uh Coach Olivia if you want to check out rundoing.com and find a world class expert run coach to help you crush your goals uh etc we've got all that down there but uh hey this was a fun conversation I'm so thankful for Olivia and her time and her energy in this conversation and until next time have a great run thank you for joining us here on the Next Level Running Podcast your source for training advice from the expert coaches at Rundoyan if you're ready to take your training and racing to the next level head over to Rundoyan.com and get matched to your ideal coach who will provide you with the highly customized online training you need for crushing your goals on race day