February IG Live Replay: Marathon Base Building with Coach Nico Montanez

In this month's Instagram Live replay with Coach Will Benitez he chats with RunDoyen coach and stud marathoner Nico Montanez about building the base in your marathon training cycle. This is an excellent conversation and gives great insight from a guy who's run 2:09:55 for the marathon! 

Connect with Coach Nico here:
https://www.rundoyen.com/running-coaches/nico-montanez/

Connect with Coach Will Benitez:
https://www.rundoyen.com/coaching-services/nutrition-coaching/

Check out RunDoyen if you are looking for a World Class Expert Run Coach to help you crush your running goals: https://www.rundoyen.com/

If you aren't quite ready for a Run Coach, check out the Doyen Dashers Program:
https://www.rundoyen.com/dashers/

Follow @RunDoyen for IG Live sessions:
https://www.instagram.com/rundoyen/

Join the Next Level Running Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/nextlevelrunning

Questions for me: 
https://www.rundoyen.com/running-coaches/jacob-phillips/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:18

This is the Next Level Running Podcast brought to you by the expert coaches at Run Goy. Helping runners of all levels start their goal on Wayne. By matching the perfect coach for training point. Hello, and welcome back to the Next Level Running Podcast. I'm your host, Jacob Phillips. And this month, for the Instagram live replay, I've got coach Will Benitez and Run Doyen, world-class expert run coach. He's also a world-class expert runner himself, Coach Nico Montanez. They're going to talk about uh a very important phase of training within a marathon training cycle. And that's the base phase. I absolutely love the base phase. Whether you're training for cross-country, uh a road racing season, or a marathon, the base phase is so important. And Coach Will and Coach Nico talk about that in this month's Instagram live replay. Just to give you some background on Coach Nico, uh, he's running 209.55 in the marathon. 2095, sub 210 in the marathon. This guy knows a thing or two about building a proper base to crush your marathon. So this is a great conversation. I'm thankful to bring you guys the Instagram live replay. I do want to point you to the show notes below before we hop into their conversation. First off, if you hadn't clicked that follow button uh on Instagram for at Run Doyen, do so. That's where you're gonna get these Instagram lives. You can obviously catch the replay here on Spotify or your podcast platform of choice. But if you want to get uh be part of the com uh conversation, get connected when it's going on, click that follow button, uh, Instagram at Run Doyen. Otherwise, I've got the rundoyen.com website. I've got contact for Coach Nico, contact for Coach Will. Coach Will is our on-site nutritionist with Run Doyen, does a tremendous job with all things nutrition to help you get uh yeah, to be your best runner. Uh if you don't if you're not even worried about the running, you just want to crush your nutrition goals, Coach Will can help you with that. I'll have their contact info below. Um I'll be back on the 26th with a full form podcast. We're talking about running 101. Uh so we're gonna be back uh at the end of the month with that. But for now, here's Coach Will and Coach Nico. They're talking about building that base for the marathon training cycle.

SPEAKER_03 2:43

Hello everyone. Welcome to our monthly live Instagram chat. Today we are talking with Coach Nico on marathon base building. Super excited for this one. Um we're gonna wait a couple well, hopefully just a just a few seconds, could be a minute or so for uh Nico to join us. Really excited for our topic. I feel like I might not have had uh an Instagram live with you for a little bit now. So it's good to be back. Alright. Or with me, folks, there's just always that awkward uh hopefully brief period of time where we wait for our guest to arrive. It happens, no worries. Keep an eye out for Nico to be joining us. Comment should let me know that that is the case. There we go. Hey, Coach Carrie's here too. Hi, Coach Carrie.

SPEAKER_02 4:01

I've be on the lookout for an email from me.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

Hopefully you're doing well, Carrie. All right.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Hey, there he is. Sorry, I I I apologize about the uh targeting.

SPEAKER_03 4:17

Oh no, gosh. The viewers love hearing me just ramble all about myself. They're used to it.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

How are you doing? It's been a little while. Yes, uh yeah. Um last time we met up, yeah, it had been a while, but um, doing well. I just got back from um from a race and um down south, so in Southern California. So that was uh a neat little trip and and fun to do that and come back, so all in the same kind of weekend.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

So yeah, sure. Yeah, and this was very recent. So I I thank you for um uh taking the time. I know we were trying to coordinate this, and you mentioned that you had a race, I I want to say it was a couple days ago. So I'm glad I'm glad we can make this uh work so quickly. Um as much as uh I'd love to just dig into the race and how much, you know, what what you learned and all that kind of fun stuff. Um I know that today's topic is probably it's it's a timely one, right? Uh so many people, of course, we think marathon season, and we think uh you know fall, right? We we've got we've got Chicago and New York and all the fun um fall marathons, the big ones uh at that time. But you know, spring, a lot of marathons in the spring too, right? Of course, uh Boston and uh of course a number of others. So I even even early summer, so now is a time when people are either they've started, maybe they're early on, or they're nearly approaching um the start. So they're in this kind of base building phase or again about to about to be in there. So it's again, it's a timely conversation. I'm really excited to kind of dive into it with you with some questions. Um before we do that, let's do some brief introductions and then we'll dive into our topic for today. Um so uh Nico, do you want to start with a brief intro?

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Yeah, yeah. So um as you guys heard, my name is Nico. Um I've been a professional athlete now for a little over seven years. Um and uh most of majority of my time has been spent on the Mammoth Track Club here in here in uh Mammoth Lakes, California. So um yeah, I've just been doing the professional scene and I'm sponsored by uh ASICs and by the Mammoth Track Club, and so you know, and I do marathons. Uh so this is the perfect topic to uh to for me to discuss and and and stuff like that. But um, but yeah, that's me.

SPEAKER_03 6:48

I agree. Um I was really excited to to get you on here because this is an area you focused on so much. So um okay. Uh hi everyone. My name is Will. Uh you should know that by now, but of course we're sure have some new faces either here or going to be attending later. Um I am the nutritionist on the team and host of these uh what should be monthly, every now and then we miss a month, uh, but these conversations with our coaches where we go into um broader and deeper as much as we can in 30 or so minutes, uh various topics, hopefully of interest to our runners of at different levels. Of course, today's topic, marathon base building. So uh you don't have to be a marathoner, I'm sure, to take some nuggets out of this one. But uh whether you are a new marathoner, seasoned one, maybe you have a couple under your belt, uh, or you are thinking about it, or maybe one day, you know, it can happen, right? Uh I think this is gonna be a good conversation, uh, not to put too much pressure on you, Nico, but I'm sure we've got some wisdom to share. So let's get right into it. So today's topic, marathon base building. Yeah. Super curious, uh, just to start. Uh what is what that means? Of course. Uh what what exactly is base building? I'm sure so many runners hear that or they read it and they we may think, oh, it's what you do at the beginning. Uh but but uh how would you describe base building?

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Uh that's a pretty good question because I do feel like it can change depending on like, let's say you just got off from doing a marathon and you want to get right back into it. So that could look a lot different as opposed to someone just brand new to the marathon, they they've never run or something like that. And so how I kind of envision base building uh is just getting your consistency in with the amount of runs you should be doing. And so, you know, everyone's goals are different. Um, but if I have someone come to me and they they're looking to maybe break four hours for the marathon, then in my ideal situation and for them and their training, the base building would be to get them up to five comfortably days a week of running. And um, for me that's super important because I want to instill on them, it's not so much about pace in the beginning, it's more about the consistency of those runs because your body will meet you uh along the way, even though it does hurt, or the pace might be fast, or your heart rate might be shooting through the roof in your first couple runs. But uh, I really like to uh envision it as just consistency of running uh first and foremost, um, because the marathon is a long way, and um we all know that we need the consistency of just run after run after run.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

So yeah, awesome, solid. So uh along similar lines, uh I'm curious like how should so we think of five days a week, right? But what about the mileage? How do you not so much like what should runners be doing? Of course it's gonna be different, yeah. But how do how do you help or how should runners kind of think about determining what at least in the base building phase, the weekly mileage should be and maybe even the maybe slight progression of that?

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Yeah, also a great question. Um, it all dependent really on their schedule. And so I really try to be cognizant of that. Um, so for example, like if I start training athletes upwards of 60 to 70 miles a week, um, that's when I start to introduce doubles. That's something that I learned from my coach here. Because it was really hard to squeeze in like 10 miles a day for this athlete, six days a week, especially if they have a couple days off or if they need a couple days off. So um I found that like splitting up the run, for example, would help them um reach their mile goal mileage goal, um, but without overdoing them. So for me, um, you know, I'm a I feel like I've been a coach that kind of keeps on the lower end of mileage. So um just because I know I know what it's like to have a full-time job. I don't know what it's like to have kids, but you stack that on top of that and family and stress. So I tend to be on the lower end, but uh, you know, it really just comes down to having really strict communication with my athletes and people that I coach and that I want to talk to or give advice to. Um, but uh generally, yes, you know, um there's the 10% rule. Uh I think I'm gonna be completely honest, I don't know where that came from. I don't follow that at all. I think uh it's a very safe way, but also you want to get the most out of your athlete too. They're paying a lot of money to help have you coach them. And so um, you know, I think where I personally would add in the slight progression each week by week, you know, maybe they start at 30 and then the next week is like 33 to 38 miles, and that will come in the form of your workouts and long runs. Um, and so like that's kind of where I like put the emphasis on is like this person, no matter where they're at, they're going to going to get an increase in mileage. Um, but if I have an athlete that comes already to me, that's already at like 60 or 70, um, that's a little bit more tricky for me. Um, but I it just comes down to the communication with them. But the 60 to 70 mile a week runner will still get the increase. Um because they need that stress, they need that stimulus on their body, um, and they need to keep the metabolism high, which is very important for the marathon. Um, so awesome.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

Yeah, and and you know, when when you first said 60 to 70, I'm sure some of some uh viewers here uh uh and maybe listeners later are probably like, what? You know, 60 to 70, uh, I'm just getting into this thing. So um, and that's probably the thing, right? Is it probably really does um like where someone starts, it's probably just dependent not only on their schedule and capacity, but also are they new to running? Are they new to the marathon? Are they do they run two, three, four marathons a year? Um and then and then you I'm sure you probably would then determine with them um where they're starting in their base building. Uh, can they can they you know, early on run 60 to 70 a week, or do you have to start at you know 2030? Is that yeah, is that a kind of dynamic figuring out that you do with the athlete?

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Exactly what I do. Um, and again, I tend to be on the lower side, so the athlete really has to push me. Yeah, okay, you I can tell like you're really hungry for more, and it seems like your workouts are going well, let's introduce some some more. So the biggest thing um as a coach, and I hopefully all coaches would agree to this for the most part, but it really is simple. It's stress the body and then let it adapt, and then stress it again and then let it adapt. And so you can't really um stress the body if if you haven't adapted. And so, you know, if I'm giving a person, you know, Tuesday speed, Friday um tempo-ish run, and then a Sunday long run, well, all while um increasing their mileage, that's three different types of stimuli that they have to adapt to. And if I'm not careful, um, they could potentially get hurt again because they have a lot of stress on their oh, they have a lot of on their plate as well with family and friends and you know, just the way that the world goes. So, but yeah, um it's for me, it's like one thing at a time. And that base building is first and foremost, that's like building your foundation. That's we don't really introduce workouts for the first couple weeks, but we're we're slightly increasing your mileage so we can get that adaptation, and then once we're comfortable with that, then we move into like the harder workouts, if you will.

SPEAKER_03 14:38

Yeah, this is great. So you mentioned the speed, and I was actually gonna ask you this, and then you just you just kind of went there. So let's let's let's ask it a little bit more clearly, or tackle it a little bit more clearly. Um so my question was gonna be uh what role does speed play in marathon-based building? You know, is that something like should should a runner even again? Of course it depends maybe how the experience how experienced they are and whatnot, um, but should a runner even be thinking about speed in in the first like month or so? Or like how again, how and and and what role does does speed and workouts play in marathon-based building?

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Yeah. For um, I do think uh speed is important for many reasons. Um generally, I guess like it's interesting when a marathoner thinks about speed, um, they might be on the slower end of that speed range, I guess, versus like a 5k all out or something. Um so we have to really quantify like what is speed. Um for me and my athletes, like the first two weeks are no workouts, just base building, but then we start to introduce strides three to four to five times a week, even uh, because they that speed, if you will, for 15 to 20 seconds, depending on the stride length of what you're doing, um, really helps the athletes uh improve their form. Um, I think speed is um not definitely not the end all be-all, but um just a 15-second stride over a long period of time, over the season, if you will, will help you uh have better form. And then um, you know, maybe it's a hilly course and you have great form getting up the hill because you've done strides for three months, you know. So that's generally where I start with the speed to kind of see how the athlete can handle that like higher end pace for for just a short amount of time. Um, and then eventually we move into like where I um prolong, I guess, the the interval or the repetition, I will say, uh, for that athlete. But uh, I do think it's really important because um, one, it again, it teaches you about form, I think that's super important. Then two, it helps marathon pace become what we want to be ideally in your threshold. So if the marathon feels like speed, then we're in trouble. And so I that's why I think speed has a very critical role in your marathon build. Um, is because I don't want my athletes to feel 10 out of 10 when they start that marathon. I want that pace to like fill the marathon pace to feel relatively um six to seven out of ten the whole way, if we can, ideally. Yeah. And so that's what secondly, yeah, I think the speed portion, if you will, four hundreds, eight hundreds, six hundredths, um, maybe if you go up to twelve hundreds even, uh, but we start kind of we start blending into the longer intervals, and that becomes a little bit different in my opinion. But um, but yeah, I think just to help the athlete gain the confidence that, oh, I can actually do this marathon pace because I'm doing these faster speeds and they feel more comfortable. Right. Um, and that's that's really critical for the athlete.

SPEAKER_03 17:50

Yeah. And early on in that base building phase, uh, you know, that first month or two um uh of training, of course, depending on how long you know a training block is, but um the speed, like uh it's not, it's it's progressively faster and faster, right? You're you're you know, we're not talking marathon um or we're not we're not talking like what one might be doing eight weeks later, we're not at that pace or yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Yes, yeah, yeah. Like a short interval, if you will, is um up to 400 meters, in my opinion. So if you're doing a short interval, you can actually raise that intensity ceiling for that athlete. Um, and then granted it's only 15 to 20 seconds, so I can really get that athlete to really focus on their form while at a high-end speed, and then boom, they're done. And they do you know, six, five to six repetitions of that with like a really good chunk of break in between. Because I really want them to get uh their form going and that to actually be like, hey, that's really fast if I were to hold this for the marathon, and ideally it bleeds into to marathon pace. So sure, sure.

SPEAKER_03 19:00

Um, you mentioned form now for the for the athlete, for the runner who's thinking like form, like I don't care how I look when I'm running, or I just want to finish the race. Why is form, in your opinion, why does that matter? Um uh and you know, for me, I I think like the injury prevention part of it too. And then the the running economy. So in your words, like yeah, what why is why is um why is the benefit of speed leading to better form so helpful?

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Yeah, I think I think it's critical. You mean you hit the two biggest points for sure, but um I think one, uh like you said, the injury, because if you can be injury free throughout the three, four, five month build, then we're hitting that consistency that we wanted to begin with. So you're not have to deal, you're not have to you don't have to deal with hiccups, uh mid-training block. Um and again, those can all be um worked around and the athlete can still run amazing, but if you can just have this consistency, that's like the key component of marathon, of any training actually, um, that will help the athlete feel the most confident, uh, then that's number one. And then number two, yeah, you said it, um, running economy. I mean, the less energy you can waste in a marathon, the better. Um, because you're already going at such a like high intensity. Well, yeah, you're going at an intensity that you can hold for three, four, five hours, and that that hurts. Um, so if you can do it a little more gracefully, um, that tends to help the body, you know, not put so much stress on maybe the right quad or the left hamstring, or you know, we don't get these hiccups again that we talked about. Um, but yeah, I think I like running a con me, I think, um is a big game changer, but also like, you know, people talk about their running forms or how they think it might be uh inhibiting them, but uh at the end of the day, I think it's like what works for you. Like I kind of have this weird thing where I like swing my right arm out. It's almost like I kind of like am churning, turning something, but it like it works for me. And like that's what my body is adapted to, and I've relatively been able to stay healthy through all of it. And so um, yeah, it really comes down to like really focusing on the energy you want to use for marathon race day. And and so much goes, you know, into that. So the more efficient you can be, hopefully the better time you can have, or and and you can have fun doing it, you know. Maybe instead of uh hitting the wall at mile 16, you hit the wall at mile 24, and that's a little bit easier to like digest.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

So awesome. Um and thinking of like speed and injury prevention, you know, I I think I think of strength training as well. And I'm I'm curious, um, because I'm sure runners are too. Uh, like what role does strength training play in base building in particular? Like, is that something And it's so maybe it's a two it's a two-part question. Like, and is that something that um new runners should be, or new marathonners to be, um, should be worried about, or should they just kind of focus on the running?

SPEAKER_01 22:13

Yeah, I think it depends on their goal. Like if an athl if a brand new athlete uh came to me and you know they're relatively good, they want to break like 330 or maybe even three, I would recommend them a training program as well. And a training program that um they'll be doing twice twice a week, especially specifically on their hard days. Um let's say Tuesday's speed again and Friday's tempo, then I would expect that athlete, if uh their schedule allows, to also lift that day as well. And um I guess what the science like shows is that uh you kind of keep when you keep your hard days hard and your easy days easy, like you really super compensate from that that pounding effect. So, you know, if you go do um let's say you do the hex bar, um, you do you know three sets of ten and you get kind of heavier each um each um like set you do, um, you know, you want the legs to like have that fatiguing feeling, uh, because they're just gonna send signals to your to your legs like, hey, this guy, this girl, they're not listening, so they keep beating themselves up, so let's get stronger. And that's ideally as simple as I can put it to help that athlete just to grow even stronger. Because uh the marathon's a lot of pounding um for 26 for 26 miles. So the more we can kind of mimic that pounding, but without the actual pounding, um, maybe the mileage, um, that that really helps again to one be more efficient, um, and then two prevent injury, you know, so that you can say consistent again, and the theme of it is consistency. But um, but yeah, so I you know, maybe if they're a newer marathoner, um, it depends how much they're willing to come to me and like ask for, and even then I would start them off really, really light. Um, but I'd always preface like I'm not a strength coach, so but here's my recommendations. Um so it's just um it is um I think you're leaving a lot on the table if you don't strength train. Um, but that's again, that's my personal opinion. Um the marathon is such a long distance, and um, you know, you you need oxygen at the end of the day to your muscles, and whatever best is gonna do that is whatever you need to do. But I think lifting helps that process. Sure.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

Yeah, I mean you know, if someone, and of course, this this is a challenge in general for someone who's looking to run a marathon, but if someone really only has the ability to train or exercise three days a week, let's say you've got someone who travels all the time for work or whatever the case is, um you're probably not gonna strength train, or or it's gonna look very limited because you have to maximize the running in that scenario. You got someone who can train six days a week, you're probably gonna put some strength training in there. Um you're gonna have a really good reason not to, if that's the case.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, so they might they might have to be like allergic to to wait for something for me not to do that.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

Some monitors are someone's allergic to stretching, but I know some monners are allergic to strength training too. They just they just don't I get it, right? They're like, I'd rather be running.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Yeah, I totally get it too. That was me in college. Um ironically, I did not lift a single weight my senior year of college, and I had the best cross-country season of my life.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

Yeah, but but and I don't want people to take the wrong thing away, right? You've got how much buildup and how much like targeted, specific, like you're you have an incredibly adaptable body at that or adapted body at that point, right? Like that's that situation, the the body you had at senior year in college where you where you let go of strength training, like you are so set up to still be okay because of that. You want to you want to run a new runner taking on this, you know, um yeah, mammoth uh uh event, for example.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Like that's that's so well said. I had done the years and years and years of lifting, of not I've seen like little improvements, but finally to have that breakthrough season, it was like, oh, I didn't have that breakthrough season because I didn't lift. I had that breakthrough season because of everything it built up to. So ideally, you know, that's what peaking is that we get you to to um to do that for for the the peaking or the marathon and and so and so and so forth. But you know, as long as you're not overdoing it, because you know the running does take the driver's sheet, if you will.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

Yeah, sure. I feel like you can even apply that to you know people getting like your your BQ time, you know, yeah um and you're like early on or maybe brand new to marathon. It's like, okay, let's first let's take that first like one or two, get really consistent to your point, um, learn everything we we can learn in in the short amount of time, and then maybe it's you know your second or third or fourth marathon where we really go for that BQ. And we've you know, you have so much under your belt, you've got the consistency, you've done the strength training, um, and things should peak or click for that BQ. Is that is that generally like a safe? I know so many people think in Boston right now, and so many people are gonna be motivated to shoot for their BQ uh, you know, later this year as a result of watching Boston, for example. Um, do you kind of take that that of course the conversation looks different for everyone? Um, but do you kind of have that conversation often with runners?

SPEAKER_01 27:41

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I had an athlete who had an amazing, amazing build for New York, uh, got a foot injury. Um, it was really unfortunate, it was really unlucky, didn't get to do New York. Um, but he took some time off, rebuilt, and now we're back at it again. And we're months and months away from November now. Um, and so that is like where I love to be with the athlete because that's where we're gonna. I don't want to say the word experiment because that's like the wrong word. I'm not giving him experimental stuff, but we really get to test who he is and the time that he has and and his abilities and to show him the psychological thing of like, dude, you can do this. Like, not that like you made this goal of like maybe 315, but you're showing you can run way faster. And so I think just to have that athlete not have that pressure of a race so soon, um, but also like yeah, have that ability to say, like, okay, we're really gonna get after it today because we're not gonna face the consequence because we're we have a race in a month. Um, but those athletes that do uh have a race in a month coming up, you can still have uh beautiful time trials that aren't as long and that really can give you the confidence to like okay, I'm right on pace with what I want to do from my course.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

Right. Yeah, yeah, awesome, cool. I know we did a little bit of a sidetrack uh off of marathon base building with that one, but let's let's get back to it. Also, it's gonna wrap us up. So um I I'm just curious, are there any like um uh like common or uh yeah, like any mistakes, any common mistakes or mistakes that you maybe see or hear of um when it comes to base building, like what can go wrong? Um and maybe of course so many things can go wrong, but um maybe just like a few things possibly that that you can go wrong, or you think it's really helpful to talk with someone, ideally a coach, um, to make sure it goes right.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

Yeah, I think um in that case, I would think where I've gone wrong in my personal life and we yeah, what I've seen is uh building too quickly. So I don't I don't mean that necessarily in um I mean it can be volume and it is sometimes, um, but more of the pace that like is you know, if you have like 30 miles a week and the athlete's like pretty good and they want to like rip all their runs in like a fast way, um then I'd have to have a talk with that athlete because because uh your body still needs that adjusting period. Um and I just like there's a statistic I saw or like this graph that I saw. I don't I can't even like remember where I saw it, but I just saw like the different impacts you have at like different speeds. Um and it was like eight-minute pace all the way down to like six minute pace, and like my mind was blown when I saw like just the impact you have when you strike the ground at six-minute pace. And um that just really like that I sat well with that, and I was like, wow, okay, obviously if the athlete wants to get after it, great, we can do strides early. Because again, that's that short amount of time, and they get that short stimulus and they get their fill, and I get my fill without them having to crush the pace. So, you know, a big mistake I see I I think has more to do with uh with the pacing than it does the miles. Um and that athletes are hungry, and then so as the coach, you have to like be willing to like understand that and give them what they need without uh overdoing overdoing stuff. So um, but that's a big, yeah, that's a big thing I see a lot of, and that's something I did myself. I I thought I needed to be at a certain speed in order to handle a certain amount of workload, and that just wasn't true. Um and then also um I think a big thing right now is like comparing through all the social media apps, like, oh well this this athlete's running X pace, I should be running this pace as I'm I'm better than them, or I beat them, or that's another one where you can get a lot in trouble because the fact remains that you and them are very different.

unknown 31:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

And how you get to the goal race is gonna look very different. Um and so yeah, so I think uh you know, the comparing aspect, and then of course the pace, uh, which can get a lot of people in trouble. And it's okay to do every once in a while, but I think uh day after day after day, you know, you're the running's already demanding, it's so demanding on us. Yeah. Um I just went out for uh almost a 10-mile run this morning and a lot slower than maybe uh I know other competitors I'm competing against are doing. Uh, but that's just what my body needed and requested. And and so and I'm way past the base phase, if you will. Um so yeah, that's just something that that I have seen, and you know, especially with these like super shoes coming out too, everyone just wants to to rock and roll, which is again, I think it's a really good thing. Um, but just to have that like uh maturity to be like, okay, not today. Or maybe maybe the last mile after you've warmed up for eight miles, right? After you've done you know your eight-minute pace for seven miles and then eight miles, then you wanna maybe send it to seven minutes per mile. That's great. Your body's warmed up, your tendons are great, everything's working, you know, it's the last mile. Um, because a lot of the times what will happen too is they get to that eighth mile and they're like, okay, I don't wanna, I don't want to actually push, like I thought I did, but I don't. So that's something uh that's also kind of neat for me. And I'll do I'll give my athletes that I'll I'll give them that free range and I'll I'll see who like the personality of my of the coach or of the athlete I'm coaching. Did they actually take me up on the faster pace or did they actually go slower? Uh and which is both fine. They're both fine, and no one's in the right or wrong. Um, but I kind of got off on a sidetrack. But the pacing, the pacing is the biggest like thing I see.

SPEAKER_03 33:50

No, I like both of those. I think those are both spot on. Of course, like I said, there could be a lot of you know common mistakes, so to speak, but totally like going at it too quickly. And and like you said, like it could be volume, like stuff, you know, that could even be starting too too high, like starting at 40 and barely have been running. Um, or it could be jumping too quickly, like speaking to that 10% roll, like maybe you start at 30 and then like jump into 40 that next week, like, okay, maybe that wasn't right for you. Like maybe that's too much, like you're too tired or you're starting to feel too sore. Um, but then it can also be the pace, right? It could even just be um going at the workouts too hard or hitting the easy, you know, going um, which is like you said before, like take your easy days easy. Like so many people that are like, I can't run uh if they're like used to like six 30 to seven minute pace, I'm not gonna run an eight-minute pace run, like it's way too slow. But that you gotta take your easy days. So so that is a common mistake and it can be applied across different different ways. But and then what you um uh that that second one, um oh yeah, they were they were both just just spot on. Uh and like I said, I I think a lot of like things can go wrong in Marathon, specifically in in base building. Um and I think that's why this isn't to toot our own horn or anything, but I think it is why having a coach, especially early on, but of course, as your goals grow and develop and you as a runner develops, um, can be just so helpful if not critical, is because you know you're investing a lot in either in that marathon, like the money, um, or like in this sport and you really want to just do this for longevity, like, okay, then you gotta approach it uh the best way you can so that you you are um strengthening your body, not tearing it down in the big picture.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think about this a lot, not you just like the ending of what you said was perfect because in the workouts you actually don't get better, you get worse, like metabolically, physiologically, you get worse, you are tearing down your body. So, why then on let's say you did a great Tuesday speed session? Mentally, you're like, I'm that was an awesome workout. I crushed all the times, maybe I went faster, but you literally broke your body down. So, why would I go Wednesday and run that continued fast pace that hurts, but like it looks good on Strava. Right, right. You know, because you literally did so much damage, like you got the you got the bet you like let's grow from that, let's adapt the body. So I've had to learn from that personally. Um and so yeah, it's been a journey, but and the Strava, that's so real, right?

SPEAKER_03 36:36

Because that actually goes to what that second point was, which was on comparing. Like it's an element of that, right? It's like someone's gonna see this, or or I want to show it off. Um, and it's like show off the smart stuff, not not the showy, flashy stuff, because that stuff, yeah, you know, that that stuff gets old. Um and it's not sustainable for the most part. Um, this is great, Nico. I'm sure there's so much we could we could cover, but that was I mean, this was good. This might mean that you know we just do another base building uh session. Yeah, early summer or mid-summer for the fall folks, right? Um because because there is so much that we can cover. We can go deeper, we can go broader. And I think we maybe we will just do that, you know, in in a few months' time. Um, but this is great. So if people want to get in touch with you, they have further questions, they want to see if they can uh you know chat with you about becoming their coach, what are a couple ways they can do that?

SPEAKER_01 37:32

Yeah, so I actually have uh the Run Doyen website uh in my Instagram handle. Um and then um, or if you just type in rundoin.com, you can see all the the beautiful coaches and uh and you know the resources available to you, whether it's me or another coach, and um just kind of you know whatever fits your need. But yeah, I'm on the the Run Doyen website and Instagram are probably probably the best two best methods. So awesome.

SPEAKER_03 38:00

Yeah, and if I'm not wrong, on the site they can uh they can message you, they can schedule a free call with you.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

Yeah, that yeah, that was another great feature is like you don't like have to pay a dime. You can see if we're there's like oh I don't like his method.

SPEAKER_03 38:13

I do it all the time. I get I I mean like people people message me or or schedule a free call with me and I don't mind it. I want I want to make sure that who's coming to me is is is right. I I work, I can work with them, and also that they're ready, you know, for the for the time investment and for the financial investment. So um it is a great feature. I totally agree. And and I think because it's free, you know, people take advantage of it, right? Reach out to Nico if you're curious, you want to learn more, you want to see if uh he's right for you uh to help you reach your your running and uh your your marathon goals, uh whether it be finishing your first one, your tenth one, or getting a faster time. So uh Nico, again, thank you so much. Uh really good to see you. Uh good luck to you and and uh whatever's coming up. And I know you're fresh off a race, so continue to recover well. Yes. Uh, and uh, we'll see you around.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Take care, my friend. Take care.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

Yeah, and that does it for this month's IG Live replay with Coach Wilbanitez and Coach Nico Montanez. This is a great conversation about building that base for your marathon training cycle. Hey, if you like this conversation or like our podcast, we'd love for you to go uh onto your podcast platform of choice, leave us a review, leave us a rating. We want to make this better for you. I'll be back with Coach Sean Henning uh at the end of this month as we talk about running 101, just getting you started with running. What do you need? What are some of the basics? And that's something we're going to build on throughout the year. Hey, look, I hope you enjoyed this conversation. Thanks so much for joining us again. You can catch all of the Instagram live conversation with Coach Will Benitez by clicking that follow button on Instagram at Rundoyen. But hey, uh, hope you enjoyed this one. And until next time, have a great run. Thank you for joining us here on the next level running podcast. Your source for training advice from the expert coaches at Rundoyan. If you're ready to take your training and race to the next level, head over to Rundoyan.com and get matched into your ideal code, who will provide you with the highly customized online training need for crushing your goals on the